LOTF: Blog 3
WE’RE DONE! We finished the book…so let’s hear about it. What were your thoughts about the ending? How accurate were your predictions? Looking back at the book as a whole, what symbolism do you find? What do you think was the point of the book? What message was Golding sending? How does it represent its era? What does the title mean? What would you make the title be (some serious answers to this please!).
And any other thoughts you may have…let’s hear em!
February 12th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
I found the ending kind of ironic becuase Piggy would die right before they all get saved. I always had this bad feeling that something bad would happen to him, and look, he died. =( The point of this book i thought, was to show that every person has that wild/instinctive side to them and when thier put in a different evnironment that they arent used to, you will notice the great change in people. This book represents its era because during that time people turned different and didnt act the same becasue thier surroundings were changing. If i could change the title of this book i change it to Wild Boys or Little Savages….haha sorry i dont really know. thats the best i could come up with at the moment.
February 13th, 2010 at 10:43 am
ok, so i definitely thought the last three chapters were three of the best. although whenever i get close to finishing a book i get really excited & miss things.
my first thought was that fire was a HUGE symbol. on pg 158, one of the boys that’s not in jack’s group says, “four of us. We aren’t enough to keep the fire burning.” then on pg 163, “Ralph tried indignantly to remember. there was something good about a fire.” then pg 169, Ralph says, “They’ve got our fire.” to me, fire stood for their passion, their souls, their motivation to move forward. it made me sad that ralph’s group tried so hard to keep the “fire” but in the end it was lost. i think that’s what happens to most people when they start conforming to the world bc they get caught up in drinking, lying, adultery, etc & their “fire” burns out.
i also thought the word ululation must be really important considering golding used it about 25 times, so i looked it up. it means to howl as a dog or a wolf. of course. saying that the boys are not really humans anymore bc they are all beasts. that was kinda obvious, golding, did u really have to use it that many times?
i think the title “Lord of the Flies” is what happens to those who lose themselves in society bc they start listening to the beast inside them which i think is the lord of the flies. i thought it was a good title but if it was me i would’ve named it something more simple, like dead fire. idk. i like simple titles.
February 13th, 2010 at 10:50 am
i also have to comment on a quote from pg 202. “And in the middle of them, with filthy body, matted hair, and unwiped nose, Ralph wept for the end of innocence, the darkness of man’s heart, and the fall through the air of the true, wise friend called Piggy.” i was just thinking, is that sentence really necessary? it’s weird for me for authors to come out & blatantly say, hey readers, here’s the theme of the book. i think the dramatic effect would have been wayyyy better if it just said, “And in the middle of them, Ralph wept.” that way, the reader is able to dwell over all he was crying about. i thought it was interesting how multiple ppl found parallelism from this book to the Bible, and i think Jack & his friends represented the devil and demons as well bc there was a part in the book when Ralph tries to convince himself that Jack would’ve never done what he did & that what he did to the boys was just an accident…the devil loves when humans underestimate his power bc that’s when he’s strongest. i think the book represented that fact.
p.s. i would be surprised if any of you actually read my entry…sry they are so long!
February 13th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
I thought the ending was pretty intense. I thought that in the end they would possibly get rescued and then all of the fighting and deaths would be for nothing. Of course this was the case.lol
I knew for a pretty good portion of the book that Piggy was going to die. They were killing pigs to eat, and I knew that the boys killing pigs would symbolize the death of Piggy.
Piggy’s glasses, to me, symbolize power just like the conch. Without Piggy’s glasses there would be no fire, no food, no ending of the book either because that is how they were found. The smoke! So I feel that Piggy played a huge role in the entire book.
I am not sure what Golding was trying to send. It was probably something along the lines of how human nature can change in different circumstances and cause intense chaos. I think the title Lord of the Flies is a good title, because there really is no other logical title to put on here. I remember Danielle discussing in class how “Boys stranded on desert island” would not be a good title for the book haha That being said, I think Lord of the Flies is the best choice.
I was thoroughly disappointed that Piggy died. Team Piggy is not in existance now I suppose. I wish they all would have lived and been happy in the end by being saved, but that would create an entirely different, and probably boring, book.
I liked this book a lot, probably because it was sort of like LOST, only less confusing.
February 13th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
what *message* Golding was trying to send
February 13th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
Cristina I do think that line was important. It showed that Jack was the only sane one left. the entire time he was right about the fire and how they needed to stay together. That line also showed how the boys did lose their innocence. How can they all return to a normal life when they lived through that. They have killed and become savages.
The conch was a very important symbol. It was the last shred of civility. When it shredded into the pieces, all hope that Ralph had of getting order back was gone. It was the only thing that had ever kept the boys in order. I also think that the fact that it was white was symbolic. It represented the pureness of the boys, that is now gone.
February 14th, 2010 at 11:39 am
One thing I noticed is for like the laat two chapters of the book, Goldman stops refering to Jack as “Jack” and instead calls him “the chief”. I think it symbolizes how Jack has lost all of the positive affects society had on him and is now a primal beast surviving on animal instincts and his lust for power. Jack has become the alpha male of the group just like he wanted to, but at the cost of his humanity and identity.
February 14th, 2010 at 11:43 am
I personally hated the ending. It was totally lame that they were rescued. I know the adult was suppose the represent society restoring order, but realistically, the boys were long gone. If they were real people instead of symbolic characters in as ficional book, there is no way they could be successfully intregrated into society. I would have prefered if the fire had killed all of them, representing how human nature can take over and destroy everything.
February 14th, 2010 at 11:54 am
In my opinion the Lord of the flies is Jack. I know you’re thinking “what? the lord of the flies is the nasty decaying pig head” or “Jack’s not the leader, Ralph is” or maybe “I really wish we didn’t have to read this book”, but hear me out.
Who in their right mind wants to be the lord of the FLIES. Flies are distgusting. They eat decaying plant and animal matter and only live for one day. Being the leader of a bunch of flies is not a good thing.
Jack is the leader of the boys when they become animals. Really, Jack can’t do anyhthing with the boys. If he makes one wrong move, they’ll kill him. They are also stuck on an island. Leading the boys is as pointless as leading a group of flies. The boys almost kill themselves very shortly after Jack becomes leader. If they hadn’t been rescued, they would be dead. Flies are part of nature, just like the boys become. Jack tries to controll this force because he is an egotistical dictator.
February 14th, 2010 at 1:03 pm
Cristina: I agree with you in that the fire I think was one of the biggest symbols through out not only the end of the book but the entire book. At the beginning I think there is foreshadowing with the smaller fire that burned down half of the island and one lonely “littleun” getting caught up in it which could have been foreshadowing the fire at the very end and Ralph being the “littleun” stuck in the middle of it.
Is it just me or did anyone else think it was unnecessary for Golding to describe Piggy’s death in such great detail. I mean I already felt bad for Piggy because he was the one who had brought up going to castle rock to fight with Jack when everyone else was just pittying themselves. He was the one that made them all go over there and stick up for themselves and I guess he had to pay the price.
The ending was not what I was expecting. I’m not going to lie I really thought the book would have been more interesting in the ending I had in mind.
MY ENDING:
Ralph ends up killing Jack when he least expects it and all the other boys who were still savages but Sam and Eric end up staying with him and then they get rescued while everyone else is dead.
February 14th, 2010 at 7:05 pm
Danielle, I have to say I am not surprised that you found the ending lame. lol something tells me you held some secret excitement at the thought of Ralph being killed. Need I remind you of your ten-points theory?
Personally, I thought the ending was a tasteful way to leave you in suspense. Also, RALPH WAS WRONG!!! PLOT HOLE!!! “Only two” my butt! What about the boy with the birth mark on his face?? Did everyone just completely disregard his importance as a human being?? That torked me off. Besides that I am pretty satisfied with the ending. I chewed off all my fingernails when I was reading the part where “The Chief” was chasing Ralph. I think Golding was trying to tell us that we all have primal instincts, whether it is to hunt or to survive being hunted. This book kind of reminded me of that short story we read in Morg’s class, the one where this guy’s ship wrecks and he is stranded on an island with a crazy man who hunts people for fun and he has dogs to track them down. Yeah, pretty intense stuff here. I think the title fits perfectly with this story because if that were no the title it would probably be something similar to: “British children with cannibalistic/taboo instincts that society frowns upon, but only because they have never been in the position to know how it feels to be stranded on an island and faced with the temptation of an ungoverned environment.”
February 14th, 2010 at 10:58 pm
Well i will have to say that i thought the ending of the book was really weird. I got really scared because i thought that Ralph was going to die. All of a sudden he was just all by himself and i thought he was either going to give in and join Jack’s tribe or be killed. Before i started reading the last three chapters i thought that the boys would never be saved and i thought that this book was just going to end, but i really had no idea where it was going. I never would have thought that someone would have found the boys on the island. Looking at the book as a whole i believe that the conch shell, Piggy’s glasses and the Pig’s head on the stick were the main symbols. I would have to say that i think the point of this book is to show what happens to people when they get big heads and believe they are always right, or when they always want to be the leader. In some situations no matter how big headed you are or how bad you want to be the leader, you have to step back and say maybe i should just go with the flow. That was definitely not Jack. I may be completely wrong but i think that a message that the author was sending was that one bad person can lead to many bad things. I’m really not sure how this book represents this era…. and i still don’t really get the whole “Lord of the flies” thing. Idk if i had to name it i would probably call it Deserted and Doomed or something… i’m not creative haha because they were deserted and they were pretty much doomed.
February 14th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
Danielle- after reading you comment about Jack being the Lord of the Flies, i really agree. The way you explained that was like totally right. I couldn’t explain it better you said everything.
Brittany- I have to agree to about Piggy’s death. I wanted for the longest time for Piggy to do something great, but really the only thing great about him was his glasses. Yeah he had good ideas but his glasses were like soooo important. I was afraid that since the boy were killing pigs that since the boys name was Piggy that he might be killed…. unfortunately =(
Dalinda- I have to agree with you about Golding going into to much detail… its like come on we who are TEAM PIGGY are already sad enough arlight? Do we need to keep it going? and yeah i thought kinda on the same lines as “your ending” i wanted Ralph to kill Jack because Jack is CRAZZYYYY!!!!!!!!
And pretty much i just have to say that the whole thing with Jack doing what he wants and it somehow turning into something good is weird. Like earlier in the book when he let the fire go out, but he still brought back a pig. And at the end his goal was to kill Ralph, but he ended up getting the attention of someone by the huge fire. He just gets lucky i guess when hes doing a bad thing but a good thing comes out of it…. weird
February 15th, 2010 at 11:19 am
I don’t agree that the adults come and “restore order.” Their presence, true, stops the hunt; however, if we think ahead to what the adults will be doing in this “rescue ship” after they drop off the kids to safety…will they be much better than the kids? The adults are involved in a war…they’re “hunting” also.
How about Jack’s hesitation at the end to claim leadership? Comments?
February 15th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
I think Jack is kind of surprised that all the kids are actually doing what he tells them to do. Almost the whole time they have been saying Ralph is chief, then when Jack starts to gain power they all flock to him and suddenly HE is chief. I think he is still adjusting to power, and even though he still has the urge to hunt, he realizes that hunting PEOPLE is wrong. Much like how he had a hard time hunting the pig in the begining because he knew killing in general was wrong.
Ms. D- what you say is true about the adults, but the fact is children will always listen to adults (well, okay, MOST kids, which includes the children in teh story) no matter if the grown-ups are hypocritical or not.
February 15th, 2010 at 1:01 pm
I think that the conch was one of the most important symbols in LOTF. When it was smashed into thousands of pieces, the chances of the boys having order on the island was lost because that was the only thing that had ever kept the boys in line.
I think that the fact that the boys never wanted to listen to Ralph say how important the fire was and thats the only way that they would be saved is ironic. because look. how were they rescued? oh yeah, the ship saw the smoke. I think that is one of the reasons Jack wasn’t jumping the gun on claiming leadership–I think he felt pretty stupid.
I don’t like it that Piggy died right before they were rescued. That’s crap.
February 15th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
&& i have like a major question here…
what’s the time span of the book? how long were they on the island?
February 15th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
MS. D. WHEN IS THE QUOTE LOG DUE?
February 15th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
never mind…just did it.
February 15th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
The meaning behind Lord of the Flies might be a way of saying that the kids are drifting from their pure innocence to a side of evil. No one in the beginning thought that things would turn out the way that they did and they believed things would be semi easy along the way. They also believed that they would be saved sooner than they were. They were saved because of the fire that broke out in the end. Along the way people lost who they were and gave into the temptation of the dark side.
A few minutes ago, I wanted to figure out what the title meant, but I didn’t have access to a computer so I texted the Cha-Cha. They told me that “The title itself is an allusion to the bible since it is a title given to Beelzebub. The flies symbolic to boys drawn from evil.” I thought it was quite interesting so say the least. Note I have not read anyone else’s blogs so that it doesn’t change my mind in the end.
February 15th, 2010 at 6:04 pm
I think Jack hesitation in the end comes from the fact that Ralph is stronger than what he is. He was actually never chief. He realizes in the end that Ralph was right the whole time about being saved. His way of thinking was proved wrong.
So when Piggy died it was very ironic because it’s close to the end when everyone gets saved. Near this point of the book Piggy started to change in my mind. He started to stand up more than in the past. And in the end when Ralph cries, the author wrote “Ralph for the end of innocence, the darkness of man’s heart, and the fall through the air of the true, wise friend called Piggy.” Ralph at the end realized how much of an allie and a true friend Piggy was. At one time in the end when he was running for his life he brought up piggy and how he was so wise.
I was quite happy with the author that he really did not give so much background on his characters so that you did not get attached to them all in the end. I still felt sadness towards Piggy when he died. I’m still Team Piggy.
So my reaction to the end of the book was finally and why did so many people have to die and violently but it was the authors choice not mine. So anyway the book got better along the way and the end it was nice to see that Ralph lived and that he survived the hunt!!!!
February 15th, 2010 at 6:13 pm
Over all, this book…is incredible.
You can’t really grasp how amazing the symbolism, irony, and satire Golding uses throughout this entire novel until you’ve read it from cover to cover.
In eighth grade, the librarian at the time suggested this book to me. Needless to say, I wasn’t a fan of the book. I skimmed through it and didn’t really care. To me, it was a story of a bunch of crazy boys trying to survive on an island. Now that I’ve read it diligently almost four years later, my disposition on Lord of the Flies is so much better than it was the first time I read it.
I can’t even begin to cover EVER SINGLE symbol in this story, but the most important to me were the conch and the pig’s head. Each of these represented leadership: the pig’s head symbolizing Jack and the conch symbolizing Ralph. (This might all seem extremely farfetched…but…)
The conch is a shining, colorful, inspiring, and beautiful shell that serves as protection for any inhabitants such as vulnerable hermit crabs on the sea floor. These traits are parallel to Ralph’s leadership. He was first described as a boy with “fair hair” before we learned his name. His role as a leader was based on making sure the other boys were safe from the dangers of living on an island.
The pig’s head compares to Jack’s savage leadership. He was violent, vulgar, and unsanitary. Covering himself in mud to serve as body paint and torturing his followers shows parallels to the decaying of the pigs head. Though he may have not had done the best job, but he soon became a provider of meat for the “lilluns” which may be symbolized by the “small flies” eating the pig’s head. They depended on Jack for food, for guidance, and everything in between. As Jack’s tyranny spread throughout the island the pig’s head slowly decayed down to the skull. The skull in my opinion was Golding’s last way to show his reader’s that there was no hope for Ralph. He was alone.
In regards to the overall theme, I don’t think this can just be summed up as conflict between “good vs. evil”, but rather “law vs. anarchy.” In 1954, when this book was published, our nation just pulled out of the Korean War and jumped right into the beginning of the Cold War, where we started testing hydrogen bombs and nuclear weapons before we got wrapped up in Vietnam. (Hella Crazy) Everyone was freaking out about communism and tyranny.
Excuse me while I ponder about a title because my fingers hurt…
(Sorry if some parts don’t make sense)
February 15th, 2010 at 6:25 pm
If I didn’t have so much other homework todo, I’m sure I’d think of something better, but I would have renamed this book “Savage Games”
God, That’s lame…
February 15th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
I think the title of the book was named “Lord of the Flies” because it shows that everyone has a savage dark side to them no matter how well you were brought up and in times of life or death you will do whatever you have to do to stay alive even if the means to go against your own morals or values.And did anyone else think it was a bit discriptive when Piggy died?I mean honestly why did the nicest,smartest,and most responsible one die in the most horrific way…that made me mad >:0(
February 15th, 2010 at 6:51 pm
Hannah-I agree with you when the conch was destroyed.Almost instantly you could see the order they once had completely lost…and in my opinion I think the death of poor Piggy represented the loss of any last bit of morals and intelligence they had within the entire group
February 15th, 2010 at 7:19 pm
I agree with everyone who says Jack was never a true chief. If they had listened to Ralph all along they could have possibly been rescued sooner, and maybe no one would have died.
On the very last page it the adult says “I know. Jolly good show. Like the Coral Island.” What does this mean? Does it mean they did this on purpose to see how the boys would react? Did they set this up on more than one island?
Another qustion I have is about the parachute man. The adult that rescued the boys asked if there were any adults. Was he expecting someone? Was the parachute man supposed to watch the boys, but something went wrong and he died instead? This ties in with my other quetion of this whole story being planned.
February 15th, 2010 at 7:39 pm
Arrrg…Calculus from Friday is killing me.
Someone call me and help me…Please?
February 15th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
Ok, first off, these blog things are no fun when everyone who didn’t procrastinate reading the book blogged everything you were planning on saying…boo. So now I have to find something interesting to say that none of you guys caught and you will all sit there gaping at your computers saying “Golly! I never even thought of that! That Kelsey Swan girl is one smart cookie!”…which is most likely not going to happen. All in all I thought this book was pretty predictable…except for the end. If the kid sitting next to me at All-State wouldn’t have told me that they boys got rescued in the end I would not have seen that happening. I agree with Danielle. They should have all died in the fire…or it would have been great if Jack got killed my a stampede of wild pigs. i just watched Lion King this morning with my mom before I read the last chapter so when I finished the book I was really feeling for the pigs (Pumba in my mind) and I wanted them to get their revenge!
One thing that I thought was kinda cool was how in the beginning, Ralph thought that the only thing that could save them was a signal fire and then fire ended up being the thing that almost killed him.
I think the whole book stood for a symbol of war and how it brings our the savagery in even the most innocent and pure.That was the point I think Golding (Yay! I know his name now :D) was trying to get across.
Ahhhhh now the hard part: The title. I go back and forth on the titles meaning but I think Danielle won me over with her explanation. I mean, it just wouldn’t have the same impact if it was “Lord of the crazy British boys” or “Lord of Pig Island”…actually I kinda like that last one…we will keep that in the running but for sure “lord of the Flies” is number one choice.
February 15th, 2010 at 7:52 pm
I decided to look up why Golding picked that as his title and I found something interesting. I don’t know if Golding knew this when he picked the title but I;m pretty sure he did.
“The title is said to be a reference to the Hebrew name Beelzebub “god of the fly”, “host of the fly” or literally “Lord of Flies”), a name sometimes used as a synonym for Satan.[ It may also be a reference to a line from King Lear - “As flies to wanton boys, are we to the gods, — They kill us for their sport”.”
February 15th, 2010 at 8:18 pm
Okay loved the ending 3 chapters. This story’s ending really kinda made me want to cry. I think that, along with Dallis, this book’s title is to show the inner demon in us all.
Hated when Piggy died, but I kinda saw it coming (no thanks to those who told me the end-you know who you are). We all expected something to happen to Piggy but I didn’t expect his brains to be squished all over the beach. Gross.
On page 186- “Lying there in the darkness, he knew he was an outcast. ‘Cos I had some sense.’”- So to me Ralph knew, finally, that this was what Simon was trying to say. Maybe I’m wrong but I just felt like he finally got it.
On page 199- “The seconds lengthened. Ralph was looking straight into the savage’s eyes.”- When I read this, I envisioned Ralph looking right into the eyes of Satan. I also felt that way when he found the pig’s head. It almost seemed like it took the death of Piggy to finally make Ralph understand that this shouldn’t be happening. Piggy had such insight, almost as if he was wise beyond his years. He knew that this savagry would “be the end of them”. And when Ralph finally realized this it was too late for Piggy and almost too late for himself.
The only part about the ending that I didn’t like was that just all of sudden there was a ship. I had to really think about it, but when Ralph could feel the ground rumbling my guess was that during this time the ship was docking on the beach. I hate that it took the savage tribe lighting up the sky with there wish to kill Ralph to be the reason that the boys were rescued.
Overall, I guess after I got passed certain things I didn’t mind the book. But honestly if you are gonna have a good ending, you certainly must have a good beginning!!! Get it right Golding!!!
February 15th, 2010 at 8:43 pm
@ Nichole- The boy with the birth mark on his face does not count as a person because he is a littlun. They don’t count for anything. After all, a person’s character is not determined until he is at least five years old.
February 15th, 2010 at 8:43 pm
Piggy…Hate to say it but I saw it coming. The whole book really frustrated me because I would have done things alot differently and I kept forgetting how young they were and such. This book represents its era because it was all about a power struggle. It also shows the more raw side of human nature and the levels people are willing to take things to in order to survive. The ending…super sad and gross.
February 15th, 2010 at 8:44 pm
@ Jennifer- I think when the man asked if there were any adults he was talking about the pilot of the plane the boys were on.
February 15th, 2010 at 8:46 pm
Britt- I agree with you about the conch. Once that was destroyed, all order was destroyed. I think you’re right when you say Golding was portrying the natural side of human behavior. The ending confused me a little though cause it seemed like the boys were put on the island on purpose. Why would anyone do that? It’s twisted!
February 15th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
At the beginning of the book I thought Ralph was a bad leader and I tried to think of who would make a better one but now I think Ralph needed to at least start out as the leader because of the fire. No one else would have made the fire such a priority and if he would have just been one of the boys his voice might not have been heard and there never would have been a fire because the other boys would have convinced Ralph there was no need. Ralph wasn’t a really good leader but he was important to all of the boys.
February 15th, 2010 at 9:31 pm
Wow this was soooo not a happy book. I think I was on something when I read this freshman year because I don’t remember them being saved in the end (haha tells you whatan amazing reader I am lol).
To me the majority of the book was predictable but like I mentioned the end kind of caught me off guard. I was thinking that they were all going to die and I kind of got the vibe that Piggy was going to commit suicide or something along those lines because he was basically the only one who realized what a crap situation they were in.
I thought it was ironic that the wild island fire in the end started basically from Jack’s insanity was what finally caught the attention of a rescue vessel. So it’s kind of like insanity saved Ralph in the end.
The only thoughts I had on the title of the book was that flies are attracted to dead things. And since the boys were worshipping a dead pig head thing that it symbolized the “death” of the boys either in the actually sense or I guess it could mean the death of their sanity too…I don’t really know.
Oh and just on a random side note Piggy’s death and the description of it was…wow…I don’t evenknow what to say except for the was it was described made me want to throw up:(
February 15th, 2010 at 9:37 pm
Oh yeah…and Cristina, I totally agree with you on the whole connection between the “fire” and the boys’ passion and will to survive…that was a good point…A+ for you hahaha:)
February 15th, 2010 at 10:01 pm
Those boys are going to be messed up for the rest of their lives! The way Golding described Piggy’s death and having all his brains fall out made me sick!
Anyway I think its strange how the man that comes to rescue them says they are playing games and having fun and thats kind of how it always was for Jack. The man is shocked when he asks if anyone was killed not thinking anyone would have been and Ralph is just like “yep but only 2.”
These boys are suppose to represent society without rules and stuff but really I don’t think adults would ever let it get that out of hand. Yeah over time adults would become more animalistic but I don’t think they would ever become SO violent towards each other. The boys just weren’t old enough.
Since Kelsey made that comment about the title referring to the devil I think it is a good title for this book.
I liked this story because it made me put myself in the boys situation and think about my place in society.
February 15th, 2010 at 10:55 pm
Agree with the fact they will be messed up. It is kind of like the same as going off to war and seeing the people in your group get killed. It is hard to talk about when you get put back into real life society. Everything that happened at the end i was not very suprised by. I did however think that the children would all end up dying or killing each other off. I think that the title is completely appropiate. The title is symbolized by the sow’s bloody head. I think it also symbolizes a power of evil.
February 15th, 2010 at 11:00 pm
Also….I guess i will throw this out there. I was completely wrong about the whole the fire is pointless because who would actually see it and stop. But i guess Jack was a strong and smart leader by sticking with keeping the fire burning. Because they would never have all survived on that island together!
February 15th, 2010 at 11:08 pm
Danielle- hahaha quoting Charlie Brown are we?
Jenn- Coral Island is another book, it tells the story of 3 boys who get shipwrecked on the Coral Islands of the South Seas. They have to learn to survive and overcome many dangers such as pirates and cannibals and violent storms.
haha so no, I do not think that the adults did this to other boys on another island as some sort of experiment. I think Golding, like Jane Austin in her first book, made references to those more famous authors and book titles because readers in that time period would recognize them and compare them to this author. I personally think this strategy is genius, and if I were to become an author, I would follow this well-executed, tactical, literary move. 
February 15th, 2010 at 11:29 pm
The end of the book was actually the most exciting part of the entire book for me. There was a lot of symbolism, such as how Jack’s tribe was all referred to as “the savages” after a certain point, symbolizing that they were no longer like humans and had more animalistic instincts than human ones. The end was a bit confusing to me. I agree with everyone who said that Piggy was a big symbol overall in this book. I believe that losing Piggy’s glasses was a sign of his death, as well as the nickname. The conch breaking was also a symbol of loss of any power to Ralph and his group, and loss of control overall. Golding was possibly trying to send a message that when it comes down to it, any of us could lose our human instincts if that’s what it took to survive. Also, that people are too willing to follow the crowd rather than follow what is right. I really don’t understand the title of the book that much. I get that it’s because there were flies on the island and the pig head that Simon saw (hence the name) was covered in flies, but I don’t get how that was really a major part of the book. It just seems kind of random to me….
February 15th, 2010 at 11:31 pm
I also think that the book fits its time period because these boys experience things that the boys in the war did. They witnessed death and had to kill others, being heartless, to survive. I think this was in a way a war story, but just put into a different context.
February 15th, 2010 at 11:57 pm
@Nichole- Totally impressed that you looked up The Coral Island references (there are actually more than the one at the end. You’re right on it also; I just wanted to add that most people agree that The Coral Island is a much more optimistic view of human nature put into this kind of situation. There are also other similarities between the two books- same character names, etc.
@Jennifer- Good question to ask in the first place!
February 16th, 2010 at 12:00 am
How about Ralph’s occasional memory problems? No one has really said anything about it- we’ve seen it before but it came up a few times in these chapters too. He’d ALMOST forget why the fire was a priority…anyone else think he would have eventually ended up on Jack’s side eventually if Jack would have had him??
I almost wish Jack and his hunting crew would have caught Ralph. I would have liked to have found out what would have happened…thoughts? Would they have just killed him? Tortured him? Would he have begged for his life? Become Jack’s servant? Hmmmmm……
February 16th, 2010 at 12:06 am
I agree with Kelly on the whole war thing- they are being barbaric and they’re putting their own lives first. There is no trust between anyone.
February 16th, 2010 at 12:07 am
This book reminds me of Catch-22, every time you get closer to a character, they die. Thank you Golding, for making me feel terrible.
February 16th, 2010 at 12:14 am
This book fits the era because of the whole Cold War “duck and cover” fear. People were too afraid about Communism taking over (or the nuclear war they’d cause) and having a dictator rule the world. I feel that Jack represents that very fear.
I really didn’t feel like reading the longer comments so if anyone already said this, sorry!
February 16th, 2010 at 8:36 am
Babysitters or “chaperones” are the unsung heroes of the world thanks to this book lol. This book is why we need ‘em! Random thought I know, but that’s what popped in my head as I was reading this.
February 16th, 2010 at 8:44 am
The ending was pretty intense i was not expecting piggy to die. I did find it ironic though that he died right before being rescued. The BOYS IN Jack’s group have lost all sense of civilization and have become completely savage. I do think that Ralph was justified in starting a fight with Jack. We were talking about heroes the other day in class relating to this book i think that the Officer is the hero of this story because as soon as he shows up organization is resumed
February 16th, 2010 at 9:35 am
Okay so the end of the book was ironic because piggy dies right before they are all rescued, but everyone already knows that. I seriously had a feeling that they actually werent going to get rescued, especially when jack is trying to smoke ralph out of the thicket. i figured that “unfortunately” jack would end up being the one to die and then ralph could regain some order….then they would eventually all end up dying. oh what a tragedy that would have been…. but NO golding had to go and let them be rescued. happy ending blah! Looking back on the book as a whole there were many things that were heavily symbolized in this book.. the same things everyone else already mentioned like the conch and the fire getting out of hand and burning.
February 16th, 2010 at 9:43 am
okay and as for the point of this book, although i wasnt the biggest fan of this book it actually had a point. SHOCKING huh? I felt the main point was that no matter who you are and where you come from it is possible to get carried and revert back to savage insticts whether you are the instagator(jack) who is encouraging everyone to behave wildly, the spineless followers(everyone else minus jack and piggy), the person who only mildly slides backwards (ralph), or the sacrifices(simon and piggy). every single boy on that island whether they were trying or not did not behave as they were supposed to. and i feel that if you put adults on that island, it might take longer, but eventually they would start to go back to human instincts also…
February 16th, 2010 at 10:52 am
Jack is crazy…! He convinces his tribe and himself that simon was the beast and that it can assume any disguise(I think he’s the beast) he also tells them that the beast is never dead! Just like the devil…never dieing! The beast symbolizes the devil 100% I’m quite positive! Jack is using the “beast” to keep the boys following his orders…devils work…
February 16th, 2010 at 10:56 am
I’m glad they were rescued! I thought jack was going to kill ralph. The officer can’t understand why or how the boys couldve killed others, but they were stranded on an island with the devils work upon them! And now you have to think…how mant of them boys are goin to be messed up in the head growing up!? :/